[00:00]

Erick:  The career that you’re following, I’ve noticed engineering particularly, it’s about the things that you do that are independent of the company that you work in. Like, you’re becoming an engineer. You don’t know what company or who you’re going to be working next to, but that can change. The job that you’re going for, the things that you’re going to be doing day in and day out, the actual engineering, that’s what you’re going to be doing for a living. So that can’t really change, right?

[Intro]

Hello, and welcome to The Career Shake Up Podcast. I’m your host, Kristin Szalajko. I’m a certified professional career coach who specializes in career exploration. I believe everyone deserves a meaningful career they love. I know it can be hard to find that career, and that’s why I’m here. I’ve developed an easy formula to help you identify the right career path for you. Let’s shake up the way you view your career. I’m going to challenge you to look at careers in a brand-new way. Whether you’re stuck in a job you don’t like or just starting out on your path, my goal is to empower you to take control of your career.

[01:06]

Kristin: Alright. I’m here with Erick Cuentas. He’s a good friend of mine and he’s hanging out at home. That’s where he’s at, his own home office. Welcome, Erick.

Erick: Thank you, Kristin.

Kristin: OK, so Erick is an engineer. He’s super smart, smarter than me. So today we’re going to kind of get a feel for what his job looks like, what it’s like to be an engineer, and kind of how he came to find that job. So Erick, if it’s okay with you, I’d like you to just kind of introduce like, what you do and kind of give us details about your current job.

Erick: Yeah, of course. First off, though, I don’t think I’m smarter than anyone else. I learn from others a lot, but yeah, my current job, I work with this software called MES. MES is basically a system that allows manufacturing lines to record whatever happens. Because I work in a company called Edwards Life Sciences, they make hard valves. It’s a must to be able to have the proper records to show the FDA and just stay compliant, that kind of stuff. As an engineer, I kind of landed on this by accident coming out of college. I was a chemical engineer and ended up going into quality, particularly for the software. So, I was super new. And ultimately when I made the Pivot to go more hybrid and remote, that experience became very useful and it just became like, hey, I can do MES. And so that’s what I do. I don’t code anything, rather just I piece things together, kind of make a digital manufacturing line. I put in requirements, I test it, I model it, that’s the term. And then I just work with a lot of people to kind of get the proper requirements, make sure it’s working, make sure it’s what the customer likes, and yeah, I can do it all from the comfort of my home. Most of it at least.

Kristin: Yeah, that’s awesome. Okay, so I have a lot of questions just from that. So, you said you work with a lot of people. What does that look like? Are you leading a team or what are you guys doing together?

Erick: Yeah. So, it depends on what kind of projects you’re in. One of the projects is kind of just sustaining the current lines. So, if there is an issue, I can just jump in and troubleshoot it. So, I will have to work with a person who identified the issue, what is the best case scenario or what it should be doing rather than what it’s doing. So, I’ll work with them. If there is a change to the software, that’s where I will work with people who are actually coding the changes, like the architects, software developers. So, I’ll work with them. We also have quality counterparts so that I have to work with them to ensure that what I’m testing is actually quality work. Right? We’re actually testing the right thing. So, if the software says it should be doing A, B and C, it’s actually doing A, B and C rather than D, right? And so, there’s a lot of moving pieces because mostly I think it’s the regulated industry. So the FDA needs a lot of records, quite a bit of due diligence, and that’s where a lot of people get involved all the way from architects to just managers, leaders, quality, and ultimately down to the production line.

Kristin: So, when the records are messed up, are those customer records that you have to like, preserve while you’re trying to fix the software? Is that what you mean?

Erick: No, records are more of like what the, for example, think of this pencil, right? So manufacturing line will say, you have your raw materials. Take this pen. Pull this apart if I can…

Kristin: So the people can’t see you, but he’s holding a pen and a pen cap.

Erick: …Okay. Yes. And so when the operator is going to use one piece and put it on to the other one and then send it down the line, the record is – operator John Doe put piece one with piece two and then send it on the line on this specific date. And then the materials came from this log, etc. So, there’s that trace, traceability for every part. Those are the records that I’m referring to.

Kristin:  Okay.

Erick: Now usually when there is an issue, it’s not a record issue. It is more of like, hey, this software crashed, or it froze, or this button is not lighting. It’s not really the records that are there because those are quality records. But it’s more of like how the software is using, like, for example, if you have your phone, right, and you try to click something and it’s just not doing what it’s supposed to, those are the ones that I can go in and fix. The records are a whole separate thing.

Kristin: Okay, that makes sense. And you don’t interact with customers or like the actual, you don’t do any of that and you’re just on the back end fixing stuff, right?

Erick: Yes. So, the customers, all those individuals are way like leagues away. I don’t see anybody.

Kristin: Okay, so I know you know the six key elements very well, that we talk about and what’s necessary. So, I want to dive into engagement. So, tell me how interesting this job is for you. What makes it interesting and how do you find it engaging?

Erick: Yeah, that’s a great question. So, the job itself, I found that I really enjoy the people aspect where I can go in and help others. Being able to figure out the requirements and be able to hash them out, ask the right questions. That interaction with people I really like a lot. The hands on, I’m going to model something, honestly, the first few times I did it, it was great. But after a while it became repetitive. It just became like writing, right? Like you’re writing a poem, you like the poem. You don’t really like putting pencil and paper and writing that out. That’s what it became. The other pieces, like testing, troubleshooting, those became a bit more tedious because, again, very repetitive. But I think engagement wise. the whole thing as a whole, I like quite a bit, but piecing it out together, I liked more the, you know, interactive, being able to talk to people, mentor others, teach them, gather requirements. And even when there is like the manual troubleshooting testing, but I can still go and tell people, like, this is what was done. Is there more that needs to be done? There’s still that interaction which I really like.

Kristin: Okay, so parts of it are a little bit tedious, and then parts when you’re interacting with others, you find it a lot more engaging.

Erick: Yeah, absolutely.

Kristin: Okay, good. So how much do you feel like, a good part of engagement is feeling like you have a sense of accomplishment, like you’ve completed something? Do you find that? You ever feel that at work?

[07:56]

Erick: That’s a great one. So, yes, we do have projects, and they’re like, even maybe a handful of projects or more. You get a dopamine, right? Once you check it off and you’re like, oh, this is done right with those – it’s great. The projects in themselves, like the big ones. It’s great when it’s done; it is a little difficult because they are never really done. That’s the catch. Because…

Kristin: It’s like a never-ending project.

Erick: Yes. Right. There’s always improvements to be made. So as soon as it’s done, you move on to like, okay, now, how can we make it better? And then on and on and on. I do have the opportunity, however, to create my own projects – improvement projects, which I have done a few times. And those I do get quite a bit of that ownership because it’s my project. I’m the one who pioneered it. I’m the one who put all the effort. And when I saw the outcome of like, hey, we reduced the amount of effort by 50%. It was like, wow, that was me. And then it gets up to me. If I want to make it better, I can. But ultimately, the sense of ownership comes on me. I think that’s the flexibility that they give me that really checks off that box.

Kristin: So tell me more about that. Do you just get to go off on your own and find your own problems? Or does the boss say to you, oh, there’s this problem, if you feel like solving it, go for it, but if not… How does that work?

Erick: So basically, they’ll give you the things that you need, like the projects that need to be done. Right? But then if you’re able to invest a bit of your own time to improve the process, so instead of taking five days, you’re able to do it in four days, right? Just because you improved it. You can spend that little bit of time finding more ways to improve. And so, it’s basically that… I don’t know how to say it – that self-enforced diligence, I guess. That you take a step forward, you’re not just plateauing. You’re not just keeping the status quo. You rather challenge it. And you say, hey, I’m going to do this. I talked to my manager, and he will most likely say, that’s perfectly fine as long as we keep the musts. You can do other projects. And we do have programs like Lean Six Sigma programs that you can work with mentors. And I’m actually one of the mentors, which helps me quite a bit because I can help others through those projects. And it’s great to live vicariously through them. But, yeah, there’s that set up on the company that allows people and encourages them to take a bit of time. And even if you’re booked with time, you can work with your manager to take a little bit more, like a little bit off your plate so you can squeeze one of those in and kind of just help you increase your career, get a sense of ownership, make improvements that otherwise wouldn’t be made. 

[10:49]

Kristin: That’s awesome. So, they really give you a lot of leeway so that if you want to take the extra step, they work with you so that you can.

Erick: Yeah.

Kristin: That sounds enjoyable. That sounds like something you want. And then if you don’t feel like you want to take on those extra projects, you don’t have to, but if you want to, you have the ability to do that, which is nice. Okay, so talk to me about some skills. Do all engineers require a degree? Can you become an engineer with that one?

Erick: I think it depends on where you’re going. So, most companies do require some, like, four year degree in the engineering or sciences field, even mathematics, physics, chemistry, those things will help you get there. I’ve noticed that some are preferred over others. For example, in the medical device field, a biomedical engineer is more preferred because that’s what they did for four years. I was a chemical engineer, so even though I knew enough to get in the door, I had to take some. But I don’t know if I had to. But I took extra classes just so I can put them on my resume and put them on the portfolio and show them that not only do I have the interest, but I also have the know-how. I’m not falling behind on any of these. And I’ve seen people who are physicists or chemists go into engineering or quality because they have transferable skills. Like one of my mentors and a really good friend of mine, he is a chemist, and he had a lot of knack for paying attention to detail, because that’s what you have to do with chemistry, attention to detail. You have to follow the formula, follow the steps, make sure everything is done or well documented. And now he is a senior manager, I think a director now of a quality team because he got attention to detail, everything was recorded properly, all those stuff.

So, engineering degree, I think, would help you quite a bit, especially in certain industries. But I have seen some people go in, but those were more on smaller companies, like startups. Right? They care more about the job being done, not what else you’ve done. So, I have seen some people – not very often – so I can say it’s impossible. But yes, engineering degree does open a lot of doors. 

[13:08]

Kristin: Okay, so if you were, let’s say you’re working adult and you hate your job, and now you’re really considering engineering. Do you think that’s the best route, to start with a small company? Or do you think there’s like, can you take engineering classes not at a university? Do you need to go to a university? What would be your advice?

Erick: For example, there are a lot of people that will basically say that the experience that you have is equivalent to a degree. Right? So, if you’ve been in some kind of science field, you don’t necessarily have an engineering degree, but you have a science field with X amount of years of experience and you can show that you’ve done projects or you have worked with engineers and you have actually collaborated in these, so you know what you’re talking about, you can use that as leverage to kind of show that you do have the qualifications. And unless the company has, like, a hard like, you are required to have a degree, then I don’t see an issue with going there. But ultimately, that depends on the company. I know a lot of companies do have an engineering degree required. So, you can even use an MBA. I’ve seen people kind of go around it, but it is always some kind of degree. But like I said, it’s based on the company. So, if you want to go into engineering, I would say pick out the companies that you want and see what are the requirements that they have. Talk to some of the recruiters, talk to some of the people within those companies and see if there’s ways to get around that degree or if it’s like a hard must – everybody needs to have it. That would be the best thing I can say. It’s kind of difficult because there’s so many.

Kristin: Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well, at least gives you a little bit of hope, right? So, you can at least get in the door, hopefully. Maybe some are smaller, maybe not your ideal company, but get in and get some experience, and that will hopefully bypass the requirements that some other bigger companies that you want to be at.

So, let’s just kind of talk about any advice you have for someone that wants to be an engineer, someone that wants to jump into the field. How do you have any advice to help them succeed? 

Erick: Yeah. So, the first thing with engineering is you need to figure out what you want that engineering field to look like, right? Just the title engineer can be many things. You can go into, like, the environment. You can go into safety. You can go into quality. You can go into medical devices. You can go into pencil, right? It’s just so broad. And so, I would say, rather than just chasing what an engineer does, try to chase what you want your full career and job to look like. Like, right? What kind of impact you want to make, how do you want that to tie to your family? And then start to see or look for individuals that have done that.

So, if you say you want to go into software engineering, for example. Right now, because there are so many tools out there, you can get a degree in software engineering, work remote, and just work honestly from anywhere in the world. You don’t really need a degree. You can go to some project camps or boot camps that will give you all the tools so that you can start contracting and just be solo. And then those experiences will give you clients that will hire you, like, full on. If you want to do it by yourself, if you want to start on an entry level, it becomes very easy, especially online.

So, the first thing I would say is figure out what kind of engineer you want to be and how that fits with your life, and then just take a few steps to get to really know that and then take the leap forward.

Kristin: Okay, I wanted to just pause here for a second because we’re talking about engineering and the different types of engineering that are available. And I have this list of careers that I’ve compiled, and in the engineering section alone, there’s about 62ish engineering jobs, and I’m positive that it’s not comprehensive. And there’s more engineering jobs than just that. So, that’ll just give you an idea of how many different types of engineering jobs are available. So, I’m just going to list off a couple. There’s architecture engineer, electronic engineer, ceramic engineer, automotive engineer, petroleum engineer, health and safety, hydraulics, surveyors, sales engineer, software engineers. You could be a mineral engineer, a nano engineer, naval, networking, nuclear, marine, technology. It’s not technology, it’s telecommunications. Textile engineers, thermal engineers, water resource engineers okay, I think you get the point. There’s just a lot of different options. I will link up to this in the show notes a List of Careers so that you can get a feel for how many different engineering jobs there are.

Okay. So, do you have any advice for how someone could narrow that down? I know there’s, like, dozens. I don’t know the exact number, but there are many, many different types of engineers. How do you narrow that down? Do you figure it out in school? What do you do? How did you figure it out?

Erick: Yeah. So, for me, my original method of figuring that out was slightly flawed. So, the first reason I became an engineer is because family is always like, engineer makes good money, and engineer is the future. That was kind of the narrow, like – engineer something. I went first into computer science because I like computers. Ended up hating coding. I was like, I hate that. So, I’m moving away. I went into mechanical, and I avoided chemistry because I hated chemistry in high school. So, keep in mind here, I’m moving from things that I hate. I’m not really going towards something. I’m running away from something every time. So, running away from computers, running away from chemistry. Then when I finally hit chemistry because it was required, I loved it, and I was like, I want chemical engineering. And that was my degree. The moment I found something I loved, I pursue that. And I finished it until the very end when I realized, hey, I love medical devices and designing. And so, I started following something else.

So, what changed is I stopped running away from things that I hated and started running towards things that I loved. So, with engineering, I would suggest there’s many fields, right? There is different industries, like there is environment, there is manufacturing, there is multiple types of manufacturing, like medical devices or there’s also computer chips, there’s software, all these things, right? I would say narrow it down by one of those, test them all out and check them out and start to see which one of these ties best to the life I want to have. If you want to be home, being an environmental engineer might not work because you have to be out there in the environment testing things out, right? And if you want to be out there in the environment, maybe being a software engineer would not work because you have to be by the computer.

So not only tying what you like, but also with what kind of life you want to have would give you a way to narrow things down. And once you narrow it down to like a general direction, that’s where I would start to talk to people within those fields. So, if I wanted to go into software, I would talk to web developers. I would talk to coders. I would talk to data scientists. All these people do software somehow, but they all have very different jobs. And so, by getting to know about the jobs they do, I might start to find, hey, I like these things better.

Try out a couple of projects and your program does an excellent job at, you know, try it out before you commit fully to those. So, after you try a couple of things, you realize, hey, I love this about that much more than I love that. And so you start to narrow things down a little bit at a time. So don’t get too… I guess stuck in saying there’s so much. Just start somewhere and find what you love, change what you love.

Kristin: So, kind of make a small list of the ones that might interest you, consider how they fit your lifestyle, and then jump in and start talking to people in those fields.

Erick: Yeah.

Kristin: …and test them, obviously. I’m big on testing. I call it dating your career before you jump in. So, it sounds like that’s the best way to go about it again. Okay, so let’s talk about companies that you work for. One of the key elements is working for a great company. And of course, this just varies based on where you happen to land. But in engineering in general, like, the few jobs that you’ve had, do you find that they’re really competitive? Do you find that everybody’s supporting each other? Is there psychological safety there? And I know that’s a lot of questions, but just kind of talk to me about your experience as engineering, kind of the culture of what that’s like at companies.

[22:07]

Erick: Yeah, that’s a good question. So, I worked in about three companies after I was in college. The first one was a company where they basically did the housing units for big servers. That one was a smaller company, and there was an element of teamwork and things like that. But I think it’s because it was small, there were a lot of… it was very flexible. You can do many things. You just have to talk to the right people. And you could jump around. Culture wise, again, because it was small, it was growing. It was going through a lot of growing pains. Things were not established.

And that’s where I saw a bit of a problem because it was more like, oh, one individual can do one thing or has a path because that person knows the right individuals or whatever. And it’s not like they do one, two, three, and then you’re climbing. It’s just basically how you know or who you know. Right? Because it’s small, I guess.

Kristin: Okay, so it’s a little more political.

Erick: Yes, it seemed that way.

Kristin: Yeah.

Erick: Then I worked at my current company Edward Life Sciences, and that’s where there’s structures in place. Right? Like, for example, if you want to keep going up the ladder, there are certain things you have to do. There are certain experience you have to get. Like the projects that we were talking about, there might be some of those that you need to accomplish to be considered for higher roles, especially if there is a competitive edge. Because now you’re not just dealing with two or three coworkers, you’re dealing with hundreds at the same level, right? And they all want to move up. But the company can just be like everybody moves up. It becomes also, like, more, I wouldn’t say cut throughout, because everybody helps each other, but it becomes very…on who is making the biggest effort, the biggest impact, right. And so at least that’s what I noticed. It seemed that those individuals who were unfortunately staying longer or working a bit more or maybe be overworking themselves, those were the individuals that were noticed. Right?

Kristin: Do you feel like working hybrid, maybe working remote and not being in the office, could that harm you in that way of like climbing the ladder or do you think that’s not made much of an effect?

Erick: I think it has made quite a bit of an effect. I don’t think it helps you too much on climbing the ladder because you might not have that visibility but for me it was great because I like that my company allowed me to say like, hey, do you want to climb up the ladder or you not, right? And for me, I was like, I just want to live happy with my family and I want to be able to provide for them. I work hard for my company, I love this, but my dream is not to work 60 hours a week in an executive role. Right? And so, me just being saying, hey, I’m perfectly fine, leaving growth opportunities to other people who are willing to work the extra 20 hours as long as you leave me be with 40, I am good.

Again, we came down to that flexibility and they’re great at working with you and I think that’s what a lot of companies you need. I was in another company where because they didn’t have that many people they wanted to push the people, they had to higher realms like higher levels to grow more, go through stressful periods because you grow quite a bit and I did grow quite a bit through those, but it also taught me this doesn’t always fit with what I want.

Kristin: So talk to me about that, like your work life balance. For those that don’t know, Eric works remote. I think he goes in the office a couple of times a week or a couple of times a month based on…depending on the month. So why is working remote so important to you?

Erick: Yes, it’s all about my family, honestly. It comes down to what works best with giving peace to myself and those around me. And there were days, honestly, where when I was going to the office, and that was my expectation, like, going to the office, that’s my life as an engineer. I decided not to pursue software, so that’s my life now. And there were days where I would leave, but I knew something was off. Either with my wife or my daughter, and there were days where I felt like I should stay home. They need me here for whatever reason, but I couldn’t take those days off. But it would have been great if I could do some work here and then check up on them or help them a little bit.

But those days came randomly, right? Like, you can’t predict when somebody is going to have a bad day. So, because of that, I decided I needed to make that change, because COVID allowed me to have that. And then my family, there was a lot of peace between us. Like, I was able to stay home, work from home, and if they needed something, I was right there, right? If my wife needed to talk for five minutes, I was right there. And five minutes is nothing for work. If anything, I could make it up later. But the idea was, I’m not an hour away, I’m right there. And so, the peace that it brought was great.

And not only did it free up a lot of mental energy, it also freed up a ton of time. Like, I didn’t have to worry about rushing out the door every morning or fighting traffic and the road rage on the way home. None of that. It just completely went out the window. And I felt like my life became much lighter. I didn’t have to rush anymore. I felt like at work, I didn’t have to beat the clock to be done by five. I could just be like, hey, I’m going to turn things off at five. I’ll finish it tomorrow, and if it needs to be done today, I’ll just come back later. And so, everything just began to flow much smoother, because it allowed me to take control of my work a lot more.

Kristin: Yeah. So, it sounds like it gives you more flexibility. Like, you could work… you don’t have to work nine to five, right? That’s kind of what it sounds like. So generally, you do. But if you have to work in the evening a little bit to kind of work around your family, that’s possible.

Erick: Generally, that’s the expectation. Right? The nine to five. Because everybody’s working. They can count on you. But if you ever like, for example, when I had to take my wife into the doctor checkups because of baby or things like that, or we have a doctor’s appointment we’re, like, hey, we just book it, like, somewhere between three to five, and I’ll just make the time up later. Or even I can come in on the weekend. I try not to do that, but Saturday morning, for example, my family is sleeping in, and I tend to wake up early. I can work sometime. I just not do a lot of times, but I can. And I think that’s the greatest part is that I can. I don’t have to drive to the office. I can just be on my pajamas, get it done, go grab some breakfast.

Kristin: Yeah so I can completely relate to that. So, I work from home too, but I used to have to take time off, like, PTO to take my kids – I got four kids, so that’s a lot of doctor appointments – and so you’re taking time off to take them to the doctor, and then you’d kind of, like, maybe skip lunch the next day to make up for that. But now most of them I could squeeze in my lunch because I’m already home. Right? We just take the ten-minute drive to the doctor. Do the doctor, come back, and you’d never know it was gone. There’s no PTO there. I get that. And for those that don’t know, Erick just had a new baby. Do you want to tell him? I don’t know if you want his name out, but it’s the cutest ever.

Erick: He was born on May 4^th, and so we named him Benjamin Anakin. And so there it is.

Kristin: Isn’t that the cutest? I just love it. Okay, so let’s talk about kind of how you started. How has your past been different from what you expected it to be?

[29: 44]

Erick: Yes. Okay. So, when I first graduated, I want to go into medical devices. I wanted to do research and development. I just fell in love with the idea of creating something myself that would make a huge change in the world. And as I started to explore that realm, I was working towards it. So, I went into quality first, but my path was, I want to go into research and development. I want to make something. Because it was medical devices and because I started to network and study and learn from others, I realized that research and development is not as clean cut as being the math scientist. Right?

 You can’t just go into your garage and say, I’m going to build this thing that’s going to go into somebody, like, inside their body and keep them alive. Because FDA won’t let you do that. In order to get through clinical trials and all these regulations, you need a lot of money. You need a billion dollars, basically, right? And I was like, I don’t want to be in debt for a million dollars.

Making something of myself that goes into somebody’s body or is medical device quickly became you need help. Like you can do this by yourself. Unless you’re a billionaire, then you can probably do it by yourself. But I’m not so that path went away and I started to discover other things like what else can I create, what else can I do? And all of these things always led me to being in office, on the line, right? Like being somewhere.

And that’s where I started to see, which I didn’t see at first, but I started to see the conflict with family, right? Sometimes they need sometimes because I’m working on something, I can get lost in work like 5 hours more but then my family is robbed of those 5 hours. And so, as I started to go through this career journey, I started to see that there are things that really mattered to me that I took for granted a lot. There are things that I thought I wanted but I didn’t really want. And so ultimately my career ended up going in many directions. He went to manufacturing first, then he went into quality, software, then it went into safety and then it went back into software with the focus on remote work and now it’s kind of going into the more job search and career coaching aspect.

But I noticed that right off the bat you don’t know as much about yourself as you think you know. And it’s by going through these experiences and kind of figuring out as you go, you’re like hey, I like this, or this becomes a nonnegotiable, right? Or your priorities just start to align based on the experiences that you have, you come to know yourself a bit better, those around you and ultimately my career path went zigzag many times, yeah.

Kristin: Yeah. It’s just so hard to know at such a young age what the future is going to look like, exactly what you’ll need. When you’re young in college and not married with no kids, it’s a very different life. So, you’ve mentioned that going up the management track is just really not something, at least right now, that you’re interested in. It’s not something you want. Your family has got a higher priority. Do you feel that you miss out a lot? Do you feel like that lack of money… Because obviously anyone in management makes more money. Do you feel like that makes a big impact on your happiness?

Erick: Not as much. And this is something I’ve discussed about with other career coaches and just other friends who kind of have that fulfillment aspect. And what I learned is that once your salary reaches a certain point, your happiness doesn’t grow with it. Right? Like, if you have no money, which is where I was in college, you want more money. You’re like, it will allow me vacations, you’ll allow me to eat out more. And there’s all this happiness that begins to grow with your salary as you come out of college. But then once it reaches a certain point, the money just can’t buy any more happiness. It seems like that, at least for me.

It would be great to have a nicer house, but at this point, like, all my debts are paid. We go out and get takeout. We have peace, right? That’s one thing that money can’t buy for us, which is that peace. With management. I did try that for a little bit, and it was very hectic. Right? You’re the boss now. The thing about that is what I learned again, through people that mentored me, because you’re the manager, you’re not handing off work to your employees. They work, but ultimately the responsibility lies in with you. If anything goes wrong, if somebody needs a day off, you’re there. If the project is off track, you’re there. You have to be the one overseeing this. And there is a lot of mental energy that needs to be devoted to that.

And I honestly praise great managers because I see that right, they devote so much time and effort, and that’s a personal sacrifice. And well earned. Like, their salaries are well earned in that aspect. And for me, it just became something that money wasn’t equating to. Even if there was a higher salary, the peace that it was robbing me from was not quite the same. And so, I decided, hey, there’s one thing that I value more than others, at least for now, and I am okay with that decision for the time being.

Kristin: Yeah, that’s good. That’s like it. I think, like you said, nothing can replace peace, right? And happiness at home. If we are escaping home, because home life is so miserable that we’re spending more time at work, and then home life is getting more miserable because we’re spending more time at work. It’s just this vicious cycle. So, you’ve clearly found some sort of balance between your family and work and providing for your family.

Do you have any final advice for people that are engineers or considering maybe switching over to being an engineer?

[35:39]

I would say because engineering requires quite a bit of effort to get into. Right? Like, sometimes it might require a degree or a boot camp or a lot of projects. I would say follow your advice, Kristin. Test it out. If there’s something that you really are like, hey, I want to do coding, and it allows me to work from home, it has this great company, great culture, great everything. Go try out a few coding projects. You go online and you’ll find that there are many things that you can do. You might even find that, hey, I’m going to do something for myself, my own project, see how I like it. And if you like the work itself, you’ll realize, hey, I don’t have to worry about that once I’m actually done, right? Once I’m done, I can now deal with how am I working with people?

But the career that you’re following, I’ve noticed engineering particularly, is… it’s about the things that you do that are independent of the company that you’re working, right? Like, you’re becoming an engineer. You don’t know what company or who you’re going to be working next to, but that can change. The job that you’re going for, the things that you’re going to be doing day in and day out, the actual engineering, that’s what you’re going to be doing for a living. So that can’t really change, right? So, try to fill it out, test it, make sure that part at least you enjoy, and then start working on the next piece.

Kristin: So just make sure you really love the job. And then, of course, the company, you can find the skills to find the right company. But you got to love engineering, obviously. If you don’t like it, no happy company…even if you’re the best company in the world, that’s not going to change your actual job, right?

Erick: No, I agree. Even with engineering, like, for example, I went into data science. It’s one of the off-branch, right? I really enjoyed it. And even though, ultimately, I did not end up pursuing that, it’s something that you add on to your belt. You’re like, oh, I really enjoy that, and I know what aspects I enjoy. And you’re never stuck anywhere. And I think you also tell people that, right? Like, you’re not stuck. Even if you go into engineering and you did that, just find a way to use what you learned to pivot into something else.

I’ve seen engineers become marketing managers. I’ve seen them going to sales or real estate. And the things that you learn – the problem solving, the process mindset, you apply that anywhere, and it gives you a step up anywhere you go. So don’t think that just because you went on a career and you realize this wasn’t the best choice that you wasted the time. You can actually transfer a lot of those skills to make your next skills, your next career even better.

Kristin: Yeah, absolutely. We’re so conditioned to think we’ve got to have it figured out and figured out right now. Even though we have so much life ahead of us, right? Like, even in your forties, fifties, you still got another decade or two of work to do. There’s no reason you can’t transition. There’s no reason you can’t change. You’ve got a lot of life left in you.

So, what do you think about people and adults making career changes later in life?

Erick: You can find mentors online who will be invested in you, right? Like, you become really good friends. And for data science particularly, they’ll be like, hey, why don’t you do this project? It’s something I’ve been trying to tackle for a long time. I just never had time for it. And this person will do a good enough job to peak their interest and then say, hey, why don’t you try this out? And it becomes kind of like a paid thing. And before they know it, they just had a side hustle without them even trying to look for it. Right? It just landed on their lap. And you hear that so often, they’re like, I just took an interest on this new field. I just decided to try this out network and I landed on my job or my side hustle, which became my full-time job. And it’s all these doors that just open up by talking to people and taking an interest. With the online stuff. And I focus on that because I’m remote and I want people to have that flexibility if they want it.

So many things can just land on your left just by taking the right interest, by trying it out like you did in your career. You go and you’re like, I’m going to try coding. Try this project. And you submit it and you’re like, Somebody liked it even though I struggled. And the thing that with coding that people get so bogged down is they think they have to have this perfect code, right? Like, it has to flow and just be perfect. That’s what I used to think. But then when I started working on it, they were like ways to improve. There were loops that didn’t make sense. There were pieces of code that did nothing in the whole paragraph. But it still works, right? It still delivers the value, and people pay for the value. They don’t care what your code does. You can write nonsense in there as long as it does what your customer wants. They’ll pay you for that, which is true.

Kristin:  Sure, I wouldn’t know if there is nonsense back there. Yeah, that’s beautiful. As you talk, it’s like the networking is so important, right? Because to land those side gigs, to land those volunteer jobs, it’s just talking to people like, hey, I have an interest in this. Tell me about it. How can I help? How can I jump in? And that’s what’s helping you, like, break into this new career, right?

Erick: Yeah, absolutely.

[41:00]

Kristin: Yeah. So, Eric does have a little side hustle. Can you just tell people about what you do outside of engineering? Yeah, so I help people find jobs, and that’s kind of what my focus was for the longest time, which is, like, how to use your resume, your online presence, your brand, and your networking skills to get you a bunch of interviews, both informational interviews and formal interviews that can open doors for you. Like, a lot of people looking for jobs, they need doors, right? That’s kind of what I do. I help people find those doors.

And so, yes, if you need any help, just you can find me on LinkedIn. I’m there quite often. I have a couple of courses that are the definition of affordable, honestly, because they are set to pay what you want. I suggest people pay $25, but if you don’t have that money, that’s fine. Just type in whatever number. If you have zero, you can type that too. The thing is, you should actually apply that course to yourself and get those doors open for you.

Kristin: Awesome. And so where can they find your courses?

Erick: They are on my LinkedIn features section. So, when you find my profile, first scroll down, you’ll see the Interview Landing Course, which is designed to help you get a bunch of interviews, and that includes informational, interviews. And also the Offer Landing Course, which is designed to help you navigate the interview to transfer that into an offer.

Kristin: Awesome. Okay, so in the show notes, I’ll link to Erick’s LinkedIn page so that you can find it, and we’ll put links to the actual courses too. But Erick is the true definition of a giver. Him and I’ve had a conversation about that before. He’s read a few books about being a giver and it’s really changed who he is. And he’s all about just providing value to other people. So, if you want a good example of a giver, Erick is one of them.

Erick: Thank you, Kristin

Kristin: Well, I thank you for joining me, Erick. Your our first official interview on the podcast, so this is pretty exciting.

Erick: I’m honored.

Kristin: So, thank you for joining me today. I hope you found today’s episode helpful. If there’s another field that you’re really interested in and would like to learn more about, please send me a message and let me know. And let me know if you have any specific questions about that field and we’ll bring somebody on in a future episode and ask them all of your questions.

You can find all of the references that we’ve made here, like the PDF we talked about and Erick’s courses and a link to Eric’s LinkedIn. All of that will be in the show notes, www.kristinszalajko.com/episode4. And you can also find a link to Erick on LinkedIn. He’s on there often and he’s very helpful. He provides a lot of valuable information about job searching and interviewing and landing the interview. So, thank you for coming and I look forward to having you at the next episode.

[Outro]

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